Amy Cowell

When WyoHistory.org published its history of the Wyoming Symphony Orchestra in October 2021, the editors realized that there were many more people available to contribute their thoughts and memories of that organization. The American Heritage Center at the University of Wyoming was also interested, and offered to contribute funding to support an oral history project to capture more information on the history of the symphony.

The Casper College Western History Center transcribed most of these interviews. In addition to being available here, at WyoHistory.org, the audio files plus transcripts are also available at the Western History Center and the American Heritage Center.

Thanks to the interviewees for donating their time; to the Casper College Western History Center for transcribing the audio files; to Kylie McCormick for transcribing some of the audio files; to the American Heritage Center for funding the project; and to the trustees of the George Fox Fund, Inc. for donating the use of its Zoom account.

Wyoming Symphony Oral History Project

Rebecca Hein interviewing Amy Cowell, August 4, 2022

Date transcribed: September 27, 2022

Rebecca: Okay. Well, Amy, thank you for giving us your time today for this interview. Let’s start with you giving us your name, your instrument, and how you came to play that instrument.

Amy: My name is Amy Cowell and I play the cello, and I started playing the cello in Casper where I grew up. Casper Wyoming when I was eight years old, just out of third grade, I believe. I started with Patty Hoele, who was a public school string teacher in Casper. She started me and then I switched, to taking lessons with, Sue Salz, and…Do you want me to continue through the whole list of teachers?

Rebecca: Sure. Whatever you remember would be great.

Amy: So, I studied cello with Sue Salz for, I don’t know how many years..I-I might be drawing some blanks. ... So, I went from Sue Salz and I believe from there I went to, Kim Hanto, who used to be the principal cellist of the Wyoming Symphony, and I studied with her when she would come to town… Actually she lived in Casper for a little while while she was principal cello, and then after that, I believe I started in with you, Becky. With Becky Hein, who also, was principal cello of the Wyoming Symphony, but I feel like I’m draw-I’m missing a step in there sometime. and, anyway, I studied with Becky, through high school, until I left, Casper.

Rebecca: Yeah. I think you were fourteen when you came to my studio.

Amy: Yeah. So fourteen. I thought I was studying with Sue, when I, before I came to you, but I also studied with Kim for a short period of time, so there’s- I’m not quite sure where she fit in in that, order.

Rebecca: Yeah, I recall the name [Kim Hanto] from the article I did about the Wyoming Symphony, for Wyohistory.org, but I sure don’t recall the date that she was principal cello. Sometime in the 80s, but that’s not very, (laughs) very specific.

Amy: Yeah, yeah, it was a short period of time. ‘Cause she lived in Boulder.-

Rebecca: Ah.

Amy: -and came up- I think she was friends with, Patty and Jim Mothersbaugh.

Rebecca: Mhmm.

Amy: Then, she did that for a short period of time, then moved, either moved back or moved on somewhere else, I’m not sure.

Rebecca: Yeah.

Amy: So.

Rebecca: Okay, so, through high school, and, didn’t you play in the Wyoming Symphony orchestra when you were in high school?

Amy: Yes. So, I believe it was my Junior year of high school. So it was, I graduated from high school in 1995. So, around ‘94, ‘93. 94? I played (sigh) an audition…it definitely wasn’t the level of audition that most musicians are expected to do now. For Curtis Peacock, with your help, and it was just he and I. I went to his office at Casper College and played an audition for him, and, he, from then-from that audition I was allowed to play in the symphony. I think it must’ve been part of my Junior and my Senior year of high school that I did that. And then when I left to go to college, when I-I did two years of college in Greeley, at the University of Colorado, ‘95 through ‘98. I came and played when I could, for those years.

Rebecca: Ah, so you were an import then?

Amy: Yeah, yeah.

Rebecca: Okay, great.

Amy: And then I-I can keep going or stop, just tell me what you-

Rebecca: No, that’s fine. Keep going.

Amy: So, then, well then I moved back to Casper in ‘98 for six months, or, maybe eight months? And I played a little- I think I played, all the time, but I was in Casper. It might’ve been the whole season of ‘98-’98, ‘99, and then I moved to New Mexico. So, from ‘99 to 2001? Or thereabouts. I did not play in the symphony. And then when I moved from New Mexico back to Wyoming, to Laramie, I contacted the symphony. So in 2000- I don’t know, at that point, who the conductor was. That-it must’ve, maybe still been the tailend of Curtis. I played- I started playing again. So I just called them…No, he wouldn’t have been conducting in 2000.

Rebecca: Well, I don’t remember the time he left.

Amy: Okay. 

Rebecca: But, somewhere in the early 2000s I’m sure.

Amy: Yeah, I think he was still conducting when I came back. I think it was the end of his season, and I was there when they did the search for Jonathan Shames.

Rebecca: Ooh! So you played in the orchestra during the search year?

Amy: Yes.

Rebecca: Ooo! Tell us about that.

Amy: I don’t- I don’t remember a whole lot of that search. I remember having conversations with some people about it. I don’t remember the candidates. and I’m actually not [sure] if I played every single, every single concert, but I know that I had a- I remember having a conversation with Jonathan when he came to do his concert for his interview, during the search, because we didn’t have a principal cello. So, I don’t know, when did you quit being principal cello?

Rebecca: I think my last year was 1999.

Amy: Okay.

Rebecca: 1999 to, ‘98, ‘99 [the 1998-99 season].

Amy: And I think there was a little bit of time after you left where, there wasn’t a constant principal [callo], but, part of that time I was in New Mexico. but I remember talking to Jonathan. He was really into, making sure the symphony grew to a higher level, and having auditions for principal. And I think that’s around the time that Christine Dunbar, now Hutchings, moved to Casper, or was thinking about moving, and she started playing principal when Jonathan got hired. But, I honestly don’t remember any other candidates from that search.

Rebecca: Okay, do you recall playing under, well…Let me ask you a question. When you say moved to Laramie, sounds like in about 2001?

Amy: Yeah.

Rebecca: Okay.

Amy: Yeah. It was like Spring of 2001.

Rebecca: Okay. Have you lived in Laramie all the time since then?

Amy: Yes.

Rebecca: And therefore played in the symphony as an import, pretty much continuously since then?

Amy: Yes. I have.

Rebecca: Ah.

Amy: So when I- when I moved back I contacted the symphony and said ‘I’m moving back, do you, you know, have room for another cello?,’ and they said absolutely. I got to start playing without an audition as an import because I had played previously. So, I’ve been grandfathered in through different processes for a long time, since I’ve been playing in the symphony since, what, ‘93-’94, which is crazy. That’s a long time.

Rebecca: (laughs)

Amy: (chuckles) -and so when I came back to Laramie I started playing- there were, quite a few of us in Laramie, my brother included, and his former wife Mary. We would all come up and play, carpool together, and play as imports. We ... would come up on Friday. For the Friday rehearsal, Saturday dress rehearsal, and concert.

Rebecca: Right.

Amy: We could not get excused from UW Symphony orchestrarehearsal, which was on Thursday night. But I think I only took one season off. I took the season off when I had my son, which would’ve been, the 2007-2008 season. And then I continued after that. And I’ve been playing, pretty much, maybe missing one concert a season. Since then.

Rebecca: Okay. So you’ve seen the changes, from Curtis to Jonathan Shames, and Matthew Savery was next, right?

Amy: Yes.

Rebecca: And then after him was Christopher Dragon?

Amy: Yep. Yeah.

Rebecca: Okay. So you’ve seen all these changes that the orchestra has gone through, from being very much a community orchestra with a resident conductor, to- was it a gradual or was it a sudden change, to a higher standard expected of the musicians and non-resident conductors?

Amy: I would say it was gradual. I think, you know, Jonathan came in and had a lot of ideas, and I do remember it maybe ruffling some feathers of people who’d been playing for a long time, but I do think most of the musicians were very eager to bring the orchestra up to a higher level, and were really happy with Jonathan. And the changes that he was, making for the better of the orchestra.

Rebecca: Yeah. Yeah I remember when I was in the orchestra, in the ‘90s, that it was kind of a gripe among the better string players, not many of them, just the few who I will not name, about, the standard wasn’t higher, and that it was kind of a boring experience. I didn’t ever feel that way. I had personal reasons for really enjoying being principal cello in a pretty good community orchestra. And I think Curtis was really good with the baton. I mean, he could get things out of us with baton technique and things like that that I haven’t always experienced with other conductors, so, there was that advantage. But I experienced the orchestra pretty much as a community group, and then I’ve just been, kind of learning from studying the history of the symphony and talking to current and former members, how much things have changed.

Amy: Yeah, it’s really interesting, how it’s-how different it is now. Well, I think during that time when Jonathan ... was the conductor, the symphony kind of moved to, you know, having a lot more import musicians than it ever had. than a community orchestra.

Rebecca: Yeah. Could you tell us why there were so many, suddenly, so many more imports?

Amy: I think, you know, that was his way of improving the quality of the group? He wanted higher-level musicians, ah, or, the musicians … I’m not quite sure, honestly, if it was the local musicians didn’t like…I just really don’t know how sudden the change was. So, I think, they increased the pay, and it became, you know, more competitive, so people from Colorado and surrounding areas were willing to come up and play. And, I also think the local musicians, either they retired, or they didn’t want to play. I don’t recall people being fired. But I wasn’t really a part of the political scene of the symphony, and the ongoing, inside at that point. So, no. I just know that they were scouting out musicians from other areas, especially Colorado, when Jonathan-after Jonathan had been there. Does that answer some-

Rebecca: I think so.

Amy: I mean, I just don’t want to say something that’s not true, because I don’t-

Rebecca: Don’t worry-

Amy: I don’t want to, I don’t know. I don’t know how any of that worked. And I’m sure there’s rumors about it. (laughs)

Rebecca: (laughs)

Amy: (excited laugh) And, I don’t know.

Rebecca: Okay,-

Amy: But,

Rebecca: Well, how was-oh, go ahead.

Amy: Oh no, go ahead. I was finished really.

Rebecca: How was Jonathan Shames to play under?

Amy: I thought he was great! I really enjoyed playing under him. I feel like I continued to grow as a musician. ... I don’t recall having any problems with him. He was a really fantastic musician and I enjoyed, um…He also-it was under Jonathan, he started doing children’s concerts for the schools, and I enjoyed that a lot. I think it was a really great thing for our community and it’s something I miss, and I wish that-that we would come back and into doing something like that again. He was definitely, I don’t remember, I think he was a…I’m just trying to think. … He was a pianist and ... I remember he played with us on a couple, like, conductorless concerts, or at least one. Really great pianist. and, I’m just trying to think about how…anything else that I can remember about him.

Rebecca: Well, the children’s concerts, kind of point to, well, also I distinctly recall, from my research, that he also did presentations, before each concert, I think at the library.

Amy: Yeah!

Rebecca: Yeah. That’s all very focused on community involvement.

Amy: Yes, he was very focused and he was a very likable person. You know, good with the audience, good with, communicating, talking about composers and the music that we’re playing. That was very important to him to build that community outreach.

Rebecca: Okay, and would you say that, and maybe you don’t want to answer this, but, was he good to musicians? Did you feel like he respected you all, and treated you right, in terms of the people skills part of conducting?

Amy: I believe so. There’s nothing that comes out in my mind that I, I mean it’s been so long, I don’t have any negative, negativity in me. I mean, you know, everyone, I think conductors have a reputation of, being temperamental.

Rebecca: Okay-(laughs)

Amy: (laughs back) I mean, you know, and frustrated because people don’t come in, haven’t done their homework, and I think that’s always been an underlying frustration of the Wyoming Symphony, of musicians just coming in and sight reading, and just not preparing their music. Having it learned so we can work the other, the real music and putting it together, and I think that was a big frustration for him. But I don’t really remember him being over-the-top, temperamental about it, or I could just be totally blocking that out of my mind though. (laughs)

Rebecca: Well I don’t know, Unpleasant memories tend to linger, in my experience.

Amy: They do, and I don’t have any, honestly, I don’t remember why he left.

Rebecca: Yeah, I don’t know if we know that.

Amy: He just, was done. ... I don’t remember him being terminated or-and that- His, the end of his time there was the time that I ... did not play the season that they did the search, for Matthew, I don’t think.

Rebecca: Hm.

Amy: Or maybe-I don’t know, maybe I did. Sometimes it was hit-or-miss, all the concerts I could play, but, I don’t remember him leaving on bad terms.

Rebecca: Yeah. Well I certainly didn’t get the impression from my research that it was an acrimonious, separation. I got the idea that he wanted to leave and, you guys, or the symphony, had to look for another conductor, at which point, I don’t remember if there was another search year, or if Matthew Savery was part of the original bunch of finalists and was, hired when Jonathan left. Do you recall?

Amy: I don’t think there was another search year. I think they ... might’ve done the search during Jonathan’s last season, or something…

Rebecca: Ah.

Amy: -And while he was there, I don’t know if he was a part of that…He might’ve been a part of finding his replacement. Um-

Rebecca: Okay.

Amy: He just …traveling so much, I’m sure it was hard, he was from Oklahoma, and coming to Wyoming five or six times a year. (sigh) Wearing those different hats, could’ve just been-time to be done.

Rebecca: Yeah, well, when a conductor doesn’t live in the community, which seems to be the trend of community orchestras, then you kind of get a person who’s spreading him or herself pretty thin, and, doing a lot of different orchestras, and, probably somewhere as well, and so, you just can’t possibly have the same situation that you have with a resident conductor.

Amy: Exactly.

Rebecca: Well the quality of the conductor is probably higher.

Amy: Yeah, exactly. Quality was higher, and he did grow the quality of the orchestra. ... When Matthew Savery came in, he was not happy with the level of the orchestra. So..

Rebecca: Oh, interesting. Okay. he came in in the late 2000s, is that right?

Amy: Yeah, yeah. I’d say-yeah, definitely late- He just-Matthew had this way of, “[saying] it like it is,” and just, telling us how horrible we were.

(Both laugh)

Rebecca: I see.

Amy: At least I- that’s how I felt. He was-I think he was very, like, “I have my work cut out for me,” but Matthew came from growing this symphony in Bozeman, [Montana] to nothing, to a pretty good community orchestra, and, that’s what his goal was to do with the Wyoming Symphony. So.

Rebecca: Do you feel that he succeeded in that goal?

Amy: Uh, yes. I-you know, Matthew was definitely a temperamental conductor. He, wow, he had a temper, and but…The things that I learned from Matthew were, he was-he was a really-his demand for preparation, was, it worked. Like I-I think he really really really instilled in the orchestra how important it is to come prepared to the first rehearsal, and he was not shy about, putting people-you know-not, not singling people out, but just, he was not there to be your friend. He was there to do his job and to improve the Wyoming orchestra, and I really do believe he did that. I know he made a lot of people mad.

Rebecca: (chuckling)

Amy: He did! I mean, I-I don't know. He was an interesting guy, and he definitely said it like it was, but he really ingrained, being prepared, and, I mean, maybe to the level, just going a little too far sometimes, because he would just, I think sometimes he would single out, especially, you know, people on individual parts in the winds and the brass.

Rebecca: Right.

Amy: He would not have a problem singling them out. There were times when I was happy I was in [a] section.

Both (wheeze-laugh)

Amy: “Don’t make me play alone!” But, I mean-

Rebecca: (laughing)

Amy: I don’t know if this has, come across with other people you’ve interviewed, but, he was very, I think some people really liked him, but I think some people didn’t really like him. And, it was sometimes, uncomfortable, rehearsals could be uncomfortable. Matthew instituted like these sectionals-our first Thursday rehearsal, was a sectional. And then he would kind of lead, the percuss-he was a percussionist, so he would lead the percussion basically, while the section leaders did sectionals. And, I think that also helped to up the level of the orchestra, ‘cause people who really needed to have that extra help from the section leader or other people, and needing good fingerings, [a marking in the music specifiying which finger should play which note] or needed, you know, to wood shed the rhythm sections that they didn’t have prepared, could have that time on Thursday nights so that when we all would get together on, Friday, it upped the level of preparation.

Rebecca: Okay, so, by the context of what you said, it’s probably going to be possible for the uninitiated to pick out what a sectional is, but could you be a little more specific about it and define it for the non-musicians?

Amy: Yeah! So, a sectional is just the people that play that instrument. So the cello section, actually, well the cello section was combined with the double basses. but, they, we just work on our music, just the cellos and basses, and the section leader, principal player, leads the sectional, and works on specific difficult passages, of the music, to better prepare it, to have it better prepared when we get together as a whole orchestra.

Rebecca: Great. Okay, so, I noticed when I was researching the history of the symphony, that under Matthew, you guys did some really really hard music. You did Mahler’s Fifth Symphony,- [Gustav Mahler, 19th and 20th century Austro-Bohemian composer and conductor]

Amy: Yeah!-

Rebecca: And you did-

Amy: Yeah, I think we-No, go ahead, please.

Rebecca: You did the Tchaikovsky Serenade for Strings, [Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky, 19th century Russian composer] and, I don’t remember what all else. Go ahead and say what you were gonna say.

Amy: Yeah we did Tchaikovsky’s Serenade for Strings, we did [incidental music from] Petru-Petrushka. [ballet by Igor Stravinsky, 19th and 20th century Russian composer] ... I don’t remember a list, but I think every year, he added most difficult music, on purpose, to up the level of the orchestra. It was very strategic. I think it was under him when-was the first time we did Beethoven Nine? [Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony] Which, that’s just a big work to add to the fire, and we’re doing it again this coming season.

Rebecca: And may I candidly ask you, this would be both for the previous performance and the upcoming one, are the low strings, are there enough cellos and basses, for the job?

Amy: Well, I don’t think so. I think we need another stand of cellos. [ two string players share a music stand in orchestras] I’ve thought that for a while. We only have six cellos.

Rebecca: Yeah.

Amy: I guess, which has been standard, but, I really wish we had eight. But, the bass section is actually quite good. they can definitely handle it. So, I think the cellos definitely can, but it’d just be nice to have more for the power.

Rebecca: Yeah.

Amy: It, sometimes it feels like you’re working really hard, especially on the big works. But Matthew started this, absolutely, “you cannot miss,” Thursday night rehearsal, in sections. So if you can’t be there Thursday then you can’t play. He tried to do that for a while, until it became hard, sometimes to find people, and he would have to make exceptions, but he was very adamant that you would be at every rehearsal. He needed everyone there, everyone working, and ... and it worked for the most part.

Rebecca: Well, that would be kind of hard with people and their day jobs, because they’d have to get Thursday off for traveling, and for the rehearsal, I mean-

Amy: Yeah.

Rebecca: -To be out there, and then Friday as well..

Amy: Yeah.

Rebecca: So, wow.

Amy: And that’s what I do. I have, as a public school teacher, I have five personal days that I can use for whatever I want, and I use them all to come play with the Wyoming Symphony Orchestra. So I take Friday off when I come up. I leave right after school on Thursday and barely get there in time for the downbeat of rehearsal. (laughs) And then I have Friday to stay, and I’m there for the whole weekend, but that’s what I devote, my my personal time for, because it’s so important to me, as a music teacher and a musician, to play for myself. It’s for me and it’s just, it’s important to me that as long as I can, I just need to, have cello be a part of my life. (laughs) You know?

Rebecca: Sure, and, I gather that the quality of the orchestra has improved to the point where it must be a whole lot of fun to play [in] that good [a group].

Amy: It is. It’s very rewarding. So, and even when-with Matthew, I felt, he added a lot of different things. Well I guess I don’t know how much he added, and how much um…The executive director, I can’t remember when Rachel Bailey took over.

Rebecca: The late 2000s I think, or maybe the early twenty teens.

Amy: Okay, yeah. I think she came in and was just really she-she added a lot, she added a lot of new ideas to the symphony, and, building community. I think her and Matthew worked together fairly well at the beginning. I think they worked really well together, and I think when Matthew left it kind of-I think he burned a lot of bridges, when he left.

Rebecca: Now, then, did Christopher Dragon step right in then, or was there another search?

Amy: There was another search. So, so, (sighs) Christopher Dra-it was a big search! I mean, probably the biggest search the symphony has ever seen. And at that point, towards the end of Matthew’s, career-I think it was the end of Matthew’s…I’d been the Low Strings orchestra representative for a while now. So, when Matthew was leaving, and Christopher came in, in the year of the search, I helped write the current, and the first, musicians’ master agreement. Which is, uh, there was a whole- Every one of us, all of the representatives of the orchestra, we spent a lot of time, drafting the master agreement for the musicians, so that things would stay, you know, as far as auditions, and, uh, having things be, be more professional. that you’re required to audition. You can’t-you have to go through a process, and, just to make things more professional. So, and, I think, I’m still the low strings representative, and it’s been really strange coming out of COVID and, everything, is, things are probably gonna start getting, really back to normal this coming season, I would say.

Rebecca: Okay. Were they not normal then, this past season?

Amy: They were normal. I would say they were normal, I don’t- it was just, as far as, like, our group of, representatives, that were still musicians but chose not to play this past season. So the, COVID, the symphony had a COVID clause saying you could take…I guess it was the season before last and this past season off without any, you wouldn’t be penalized.

Rebecca: Ah.

Amy: You could have your seat back if you were uncomfortable coming in and playing because of COVID. So there were still musicians last season who did not play, -

Rebecca: Uh-huh.

Amy: Who are planning to come back this coming season.

Rebecca: Well, all things considered, that sounds like minimal disruption.

Amy: Yeah, I would say. the first season that we were back, the season before last, it was a partial season, was definitely harder, just because we had to be spaced out, one person to a stand, and there weren’t as many groups playing. They had a, like, just a-just a string concert, and just a brass concert, so they had to be really creative with repertoire selection, to make sure that everyone was at least six feet apart, and then last season was pretty normal. We were back to sharing stands and having a full orchestra.

Rebecca: Oh, I have a question.

Amy: Mhmm.

Rebecca: Well, this business of having to sit six feet apart, why-I recall, I haven’t played in the orchestra in quite a while, but I remember, that sitting in the back of the section, is by far the hardest place to sit.

Amy: Absolutely.

Rebecca: Just in the middle of the section, you have to kind of almost guess at what the rest of the section is doing, especially with that sort of, thicket of other cellists between you and the first stand, so you can’t really watch the principal and what they’re doing with their bowing and their body language, during a [piece]. And that’s pretty much crowded onto a stage, and crowded together as the cello section. So, did you experience novel, uh, difficulties in hearing each other and being together, [in] having to sit six feet apart?

Amy: Yes. I was very stressed about it actually. I was like, I don’t think I can do this. I mean first of all, like, I would, I kind of, like, it was going to be like playing a solo. You know, how is it going to sound like a section? And, how are we going to be together? I was very, because it was also reduced, I think, I don’t think we ever had six cellos during that time, and, so, Yes, it was, it was very difficult, you had to be on your toes, and really super prepared. But I think that the silver lining in it is, the people who did play, took their level of preparation to even a higher level, because they knew it was gonna be challenging. I know for myself, I was probably the most prepared that I have ever been as a musician, and I feel like my musicianship skills really really improved. (laughs) Because of how hard [it was] and how stressed I was over all the, you know, to not play together, and, so.

Rebecca: Yeah, it’s sort of hard to face that stress is an experience in the arts, I’ve experienced this with both cello playing, many times actually, and with writing, are usually the ones that stimulate us the most to grow, so.

Amy: Yeah. Absolutely. I know. Isn’t that crazy?

Rebecca: (laughs) It’s-it is crazy.

Amy: It’s like, “Okay, there’s three of you playing this really fast passage, there is nowhere to hide, and-”

Rebecca: (chuckles)

Amy: -And I think that as a younger musician, the younger Amy who first started playing, I feel so grateful that I got to start playing in the symphony when I was in high school, but, I didn’t know what I was doing, and I didn’t know-I mean I learned so much, but I also feel like, now that I’m close to middle age, it’s really, I feel like I still continue to grow, and, one of the things that I feel with Matthew especially, is that he really taught me how to really count. That’s the one thing that he was so good at. And the importance of subdividing, and the importance of always counting. You’re never on break. And not just counting one, two, three, four, but subdividing, and, to me I’m like “wow, how come it took me so long to really get that?” But, I mean it also shows that we’re all, we’re always learning and we’re always growing, if we let ourselves. And not to be complacent and think that you have nothing-you’ve been playing in an orchestra forever, you have nothing to learn, you know, at all, and I definitely don’t feel that way. I definitely feel like I’m continually growing.

Rebecca: That’s very good to hear. So, let’s back up just a bit for the non-musicians, you gave a good example of counting being one, two, three, four. Can you give an example of what is meant by subdividing?

Amy: So subdividing the beats within the one. So, if we’re in, if we’re counting to four, which, like 4-4 time, one, two, three, four, is representative of the quarter note, and as a musician, it’s really important that you’re subdividing the smaller notes, like the sixteenth notes, for instance, which would be one-e-and-a, two-e-and-a, three-e-and-a, four-e-and a. And, so it’s really important to be able to feel those subdivisions all the time, to make sure you’re really with the conductor and with your section. And being able to listen in the orchestra for the other instruments and the other sections that are playing, maybe, those subdivisions. sixteenth notes while maybe you’re playing quarter notes, and feeling that, and subdividing it with them. Listening. It’s not just about your part, it’s about being able to play your part together with everyone else.

Rebecca: Yeah. So that’s good, that’s like chamber music where your only way of staying together is to listen to each other and respond to each other. But, it sounds like this was Matthew that required-

Amy: Matthew-and Matthew was constantly subdividing out loud, and so does Chris-Chris Dragon. but Matthew, he was very, adamant that everyone learn how to count, and subdivide, and know the importance of it, and he ingrained that into us so much, that as a musician-I never, I mean, I counted and I subdivided before, but he took it to the next level, for me especially, so, and it is amazing how something like that can improve your musicianship.

Rebecca: I agree. So, you’ve been playing under Christopher Dragon, ever since he was hired…what year? Do you remember approximately?

Amy: So. (clears throat) When was he hired? 2000…2018? Or, well, let’s see, 2000, I think it must’ve been 2018 because it was before COVID.

Rebecca: Oh. Right.

Amy: Yeah. So he came in. We did the conductor search. We did a whole season, between Matthew and Christopher, to do another conductor search. And, yeah. He was a finalist, and he was, he’s fantastic. I think we’re very lucky to have him in our community and in, as a conductor of our symphony.

Rebecca: I gather that his people skills are very good?

Amy: His people skills are very good. He is the most on-task conductor I’ve ever worked with. That man, wastes, not a second of time. The amount of information he can store in his brain, as we’re playing, to go back and rehearse, is incredible.

Rebecca: I have a question.

Amy: uh-huh.

Rebecca: I had a conductor, who, when there was something he didn’t want to stop about, but then he wanted to go back about, he would fish in his pocket for a piece of paper and he would put it on the score, and then when he turned the pages of the score, we’d keep going, and then when he stopped us he would flip back through the score to see where he had wanted to talk to us about something, and rehearse something.

Amy: That’s exactly what Christopher does.

Rebecca: Oh so he does have a mnemonic device where he doesn’t keep it all in his head, he actually marks the score?

Amy: Yes, yes. But I mean he’s just-he’s literally, it is crazy- he’s like, gets a piece of paper and turns the page, and it’s, you know, it’s just to remind him to go back and look at that section. But I mean, he does not turn to the page and be like “hmm, I wonder what I was thinking here.” He just, he really knows, so, or he is really good at, I mean, it’s incredible to me. He does not hem and haw around, he does not tell jokes, he does not do anything. He is one hundred percent on-task, one hundred percent of the time, and, he expects the musicians to be the same, and…The level of the orchestra now, with him as the conductor, it’s incredible. It’s so much fun to come play, and I mean, I never want to miss a concert, because he is a wealth of knowledge, and, I mean, I spend-it’s rewarding to me. I mean, I had to practice focusing on my music, and coming up and playing together with all other musicians.

Rebecca: That’s really wonderful to hear. That sounds like a-a really good situation for the musicians.

Amy: It is, and I mean, ... he’s really, he comes up to Casper for the whole week when he spends time in the school. He spends time that’s really great with, youth in our community, Casper’s community. And, he’s a really fantastic, educator, and conductor. And I know Matthew did the same thing. I don’t want to discredit anything from Matthew. Matthew is super, um- There’s, we have this, uh, so-There’s some feedback. Are you hearing that?

Rebecca: Yeah, I don’t know what to do about it.

Amy: Okay, it’s okay as long as you can hear me.

Rebecca: It’s fine.

Amy: Okay, we have a, the symphony started-I’m not sure when it was, but it’s called “Music on the Move?” So, on the Friday daytime, a lot of people come up from out of town. We either go out to the schools, or go to nursing homes, and play, and educate students, and, the community, about the symphony and about music. So, I’ve been doing that on Fridays for a number of years, with other musicians. Usually we have a trio or quartet that goes out and plays in the public schools, and, spends about an hour with the students and educates them about string instruments, helps the public school teachers out with concepts that they would like us to address, and, also, promote the symphony. So, Christopher also does that. He does that by going into, a lot of times, middle school and high school orchestras, and, conducting them and clinicing them. [holding instructional clinics]

Rebecca: So he’ll actually take over an orchestra class?

Amy: Yep. And the kids-he’s really dynamic, the kids really like him.

Rebecca: Well, if this community can no longer have a youth symphony, at least we’ve got that.

Amy: Right. Absolutely. It would be great to see that. I don’t know if we’ll ever see that again.

Rebecca: Yeah. Well, is there anything else you would like to tell us about your experience with the symphony, either long ago, or now, or, between?

Amy: I just feel-I feel incredibly blessed to still be a part of this for all these years, and, I hope that it continues to grow, and that I can continue to be a part of it for as long as I’m able.

Rebecca: Yeah. Well it’s great that, I’m sure that you’re not alone in feeling so positive about that, and the musicians’ end of it.

Amy: Yeah, I hope so. I feel like it’s a really positive environment right now, and that makes me happy.

Rebecca: Okay, well, I guess we’re ready to wind up.

Amy: Okay.

Rebecca: Thank you for giving us your time.

Amy: You’re welcome!

Rebecca: Okay. That’s it.

Amy: Thank you.

Rebecca: Yeah, take care. 

Amy: Okay, well thank you Becky!

Rebecca: Sure! Yeah.

Amy: Okay. Take care.

Rebecca: Uh-huh, bye.

Amy: Bye.