Deborah Bovie
When WyoHistory.org published its history of the Wyoming Symphony Orchestra in October 2021, the editors realized that there were many more people available to contribute their thoughts and memories of that organization. The American Heritage Center at the University of Wyoming was also interested, and offered to contribute funding to support an oral history project to capture more information on the history of the symphony.
The Casper College Western History Center transcribed most of these interviews. In addition to being available here, at WyoHistory.org, the audio files plus transcripts are also available at the Western History Center and the American Heritage Center.
Thanks to the interviewees for donating their time; to the Casper College Western History Center for transcribing the audio files; to Kylie McCormick for transcribing some of the audio files; to the American Heritage Center for funding the project; and to the trustees of the George Fox Fund, Inc. for donating the use of its Zoom account.
Wyoming Symphony Oral History Project
Rebecca Hein interviewing Deborah Bovie, October 20, 2022
Date transcribed: October 2, 2022
Rebecca: Okay. Thank you very much for making yourself available for this interview. Let's start with your name and your instrument and how you came to play that instrument.
Deborah: My name is Debbie Johnson Bovie and I am a cellist. I started playing cello in fourth grade based on a test that I took the previous year in third grade. That particular day when they came in and said, “Do you want to take our music test?” The option was a music test or a math test. I had not studied for that math test. So I decided what the heck I'd take the music test. And depending on what your score was, determined what category of instrumentation they recommended that you play. And I scored fairly high. So they recommended strings, which apparently they at that time felt that strings were the more difficult type of instrument to learn. And so I was all excited, went home and told my parents that I was going to play violin. And my father, who was [a] trombone player also in the symphony, kind of had a discussion with me later and convinced me that maybe I would like to play the cello because it was also sometimes a melodic instrument like the violin was, but not quite as popular as the violin is. So I decided to go with the cello, and as I was growing up, I kept thinking that the reason he really convinced me to do the cello was because the trombone player clef plays in that same register and he would be able to help me with the music and so on. [A clef is a sign, a kind of hieroglyphic, that musicians have to learn. It defines a particular line of the five-line musical staff, and it defines the note for that line—such as G—and from there, that is the reference point for locating all the other notes on the staff. Without a clef to define what note a particular line is, those five lines have no meaning at all. Cello (and trombone) music is usually notated in bass clef.] So when I got into college, I found out that the reason he really wanted me to go with cello was because he didn't think that he would be able to deal with the high squeaking of my learning, the instrument, squeaking of learning the instrument, which was quite interesting. So after 15 years of playing that, I find out what his real reasons were.
Rebecca: That’s funny. That's a great story. Okay, so that's how you came to play. Let's talk a little bit about your early training, for example, orchestra in public school and whether you had private lessons and that sort of thing.
Deborah: Okay. So, two classes, essentially orchestra, string classes and stuff in elementary school. And then once we got into junior high, I went to East Junior High School and Dorotha Becker was the orchestra director. They actually had a full orchestra. So they didn't split out the strings and the band instruments. It was a full orchestra. So during high junior high, middle school, that's where I incorporated the orchestra also started playing in the Youth Symphony. When I got going and played in junior high through college in the youth orchestra. ... I took private lessons starting in middle school and took lessons from Miss Becker, whose primary instrument was technically trumpet. But she also was a violinist. I'm sure you remember, and she was the concertmaster [first chair, first violin, and leader of the whole string section] of the symphony for a while as well. I did not have a cello teacher until I was 18 years [old]—in high school, because most of the teachers that were in Casper were violinists. There weren't any that actually had cello as their primary instrument. So I didn't take from, a cello lesson, until [I was a] junior in high school. And then, of course, I took lessons when I was in college too.
Rebecca: And when you were a senior, that would have had to have been with Rebecca Rennecker, would that be right?
Deborah: Yes.
Rebecca: Yeah. Okay.
Deborah: And in fact, that's the cello that I play on, have played on for years, is the cello that I bought from Becky. So, yeah.
Rebecca: I'll make a note here. Do you have any particular memories of playing in the Youth Symphony that you would like to tell us about?
Deborah: Oh, we learned a lot. We had Saturday rehearsals, which I wasn't really happy about having to go to rehearsals on a Saturday morning because I would much rather have been watching cartoons. But it was something that my father was kind of insistent that I do. But we did learn a lot. I did get tired of playing Finlandia every year. [Finlandia is a tone poem (single-movement piece of music, often with a special literary or artistic theme) by Jean Sibelius, 19th and 20th century Finnish composer] You know, it was a good learning experience and it was a good community experience, too, because a lot of us kind of grew up together. And through that organization and up through college with Casper College and so on. So it built our relationships, I guess you could say, even though a lot of us went to different schools.
Rebecca: You know, I think that's true. I remember Youth Symphony being sort of the center of my social life when I was in high school, and a lot of my friends did go to Kelly Walsh [high school on the east end of Casper] and not Natrona County High School.
Deborah: Yeah, right.
Rebecca: Okay. Do you recall or or can you tell us how you came to play in the [Casper] Civic Symphony and when?
Deborah: Approximately when I started December in 1974. And basically my father, who was trombonist in the symphony at that time, I think he started in 1968 with the symphony and one day he pops up and he said, “Would you be interested in playing? Because we need cellists,” and I can't remember how many were in the symphony at that time. There weren't a lot, maybe four. And, you know, so he just said, “Do you want to play?” I said, Sure. I went to rehearsal and that's how I started. We didn't have to audition or anything at that point. It was clearly community interest and we did get paid a stipend, as I'm sure you remember. Got a stipend twice a year, one for Christmas and another one at the end of the season. If I remember right, it was between $70 and $75 per stipend, but it was a learning experience and it was fun. So that's why we all did it.
Rebecca: Yeah. Okay. So at that time, the Casper Musicians Union [local chapter of the American Federation of Musicians] was funding a scholarship to Congress of Strings. Did you ever get to go to Congress of Strings?
Deborah: I did not.
Rebecca: Hmm, you’re only person I've talked to, I think, of that era that didn't go. Okay. So if you started in 1974, you did not play under Rex Eggleston [the previous Civic Symphony conductor, and also often principal viola, as well as head of the Casper public schools music program]. You must have started playing under Curtis Peacock. Well, do you want to go ahead with what it was like to play under him and what you remember about that particular era.
Deborah: And played with, under, Curtis for quite a long time, obviously from almost when he started to [indistinguishable]. Curtis could teach a lot. Sometimes he wouldn't necessarily. He was focused, maybe as he could have been on, you know, teaching the younger kids. I think I learned more in high school than I did then in the junior high, but that's probably common just because of that mentality at that age. Curtis would take us on tours and we did that both with Youth Symphony, obviously, and also with the symphony at that time. So we would actually do like an annual tour and go around to various communities in the state and that's where you kind of see a different side to people for sure. During those tours. And I saw a different side of my father on the tours too. Curtis liked to have fun, but he was also very serious in what he attempted to do. Then sometimes he would get frustrated because of the caliber of playing. Probably it wasn't up to what he had hoped it would be, but that was all part of the learning process. I played in the Baroque Ensemble [chamber orchestra] at Casper College and went on tour with them as well. In high school, I did play at All Northwest as a junior; that was my only opportunity there because they have that every other year and I just happened to only hit it when I was a junior. [All Northwest Honors Orchestra was composed of high school musicians who had won a place in the orchestra by taped audition. The musicians were from the northwest portion of the U.S.] Played All State [All State Honors Orchestra, also by taped audition, including all the winners from the state of Wyoming] every year, you know, and a lot of that was guidance from Curtis and guidance from Dorotha Becker as well to push to do those competitions. What else do you want to know?
Rebecca: Did you also go to the All Northwest Honors Orchestra?
Deborah: Well, in in 74, we went to, I can remember what it was, Portlanders [Oregon] who came and you're talking about All Northwest competition. We had to be able to go, Yeah, I did that one time as a junior. And then and well, also went, when my first year of college, the Baroque Ensemble, actually went to All Northwest to perform not as that particular group, but perform for others at All Northwest. So I was able to go and participate twice, one directly as the orchestra, and Carmen Dragon was our conductor that year for All Northwest. [Carmen Dragon, American conductor]
Rebecca: Can you repeat that name?
Deborah: Carmen Dragon.
Rebecca: Yeah, that's a familiar name, but I can't remember whether. Can’t remember anything about him or her. So that's how I remember.
Deborah: Yeah, I do have that. I do have a record of our recordings and the stuff was buried and stuff there, but okay.
Rebecca: You know.
Deborah: They didn't have CDs themselves. An actual LP, right?
Rebecca: When did you become assistant principal cello with the [Wyoming Symphony] orchestra?
Deborah: Oh, I don't know that I was ever officially designated as the assistant principal. Truthfully, it was kind of bouncing around as they needed. I was acting principal for two years during the transition and the conductor search between Curtis and Jonathan [Shames] since I was principal for two years, which was nerve wracking but pushed me technically and then moved back into—I'm much more comfortable in the section than as a principal.
Rebecca: But yeah, I remember I was going to ask you about the times when you were principal cello, because I remember seeing your name in some of the programs as principal.
Deborah: So yeah, it was during the, the first year to conduct the search and then the first year of Jonathan, and then he moved me back and put Christine Dunbar in as principal.
Rebecca: Right. Okay. So before we leave the Peacock years and go to the years with Jonathan Shames, is there anything else you'd like to tell us about the years you spent playing under Curtis?
Deborah: Curtis. Oh, well, I guess nothing that I can think of specifically. Curtis did get as much as he could to try to develop us as musicians, worked with what he had; pushed us. He did try to bring in some you know, I think every conductor does this, they bring in their contacts and stuff for soloists and I think all of the conductors we've had have brought in such good caliber of soloists that it really would make us aware that we, how much better we could be. You know, he had a tendency to get nervous when we were rehearsing with somebody that he was particularly good friends with and so on. So he would be probably more nit-picky just because of that relationship.
Rebecca: You're being very charitable.
Deborah: Okay, well, now you're recording this, Becky, So come on now. (both laugh)
Rebecca: Okay, So you were, hold on. I'm just checking to be sure the recording is still going. Yeah. You were in the orchestra during the search year. Do you have anything in particular that you want to mention about the search?
Deborah: Since we had never done that before. So, you know, Curtis had been there for so long. It was a really interesting experience, I think, for all of us, because playing underneath different conductors, you always learn something from anybody that you're either stand partners or whatever, or different conductors. There's always things that you learn, whether it's things not to do or things to do. And I think just as a whole, the orchestra brought a really interesting perspective of where we were at and it was a hard decision to do. And just like any other interview that you can do for any job, you can come off beautifully. And I think you picking the right person and then really actually getting the job, things are a little different than you had expected. And I think that's the case of what we ran into somewhat with both Jonathan [Shames] and Matthew [Savery, who was hired later], you know, but I think that's just par for the course in any job. Your interview can be one way and the reality comes out a little different. Not that they were that different, but the search by playing with somebody different [a different conductor], every concert had its own challenges because you don't know what to expect when you go to rehearsals and you know the changes that start coming out, you’re wondering, some people are resistant to change and sometimes it just takes a little longer to adjust to the different philosophies too. I think it opened a few people's eyes.
Rebecca: Say that last again.
Deborah: I think it opened up a few people's eyes, you know, because it gave such a different perspective.
Rebecca: Okay, before we leave the Jonathan Shames years and go to the Matthew Savery era, do you have anything else to say about Jonathan Shames or anything to say?
Deborah: Jonathan was a great pianist. He actually he worked really well with my husband. He was the piano tuner at the time and so sometimes his relationship with the percussionist and the [indistinguishable] was actually stronger than necessarily [with] the strings. And maybe that's just because of his preferences to that particular instrument. But again, he you know, both he and Matthew brought in such diverse talent for us to play with that it's just a continuum of improvement for each conductor that we get even in search years.
Rebecca: Okay. So I understand that, I think I understand from prior interviews and other sources that there was no—that Matthew Savery was part of the first search year. And then Shames was hired and then there was not a search between Shames and Savery, but Savery was offered the job on the heels of Jonathan leaving. Is that correct?
Deborah: No, we actually had a we had a search year between Jonathan and Matthew. But it wasn't as, it wasn't as intensive as Jonathan was. And the, the orchestra actually did not have as much say as to who was picked when they brought Matthew on. And I think some of that was just timing. And since, I don't remember if Matthew had been in the first one. He may have been, but I don't remember exactly. And that may be why, one of the reasons is in close proximity too, you know, since Jonathan was moving to Oklahoma, but Matthew was up in Montana, I'm sure that expenses for that position was probably one of the considerations as well.
Rebecca: Okay. So candidly, what was it like for you to play under Matthew Savery?
Deborah: Again, Matthew brought in a lot of good people. He did have a good sense of humor when he was doing the program. He wouldn't necessarily [indistinguishable] sometimes I felt certain sections were targeted, more exploited, whether because he wanted to improve more or he was in conflict with those personalities where it seemed like it wasn't consistent as far as how people were treated. Jonathan did some of that as well. Could be that it's just a conductor thing, I don’t know. You have to have a little bit of an ego to be able to, you know, deal with all these, you know, 60 personalities involved. So that can be challenging in itself. So basically, even with Jonathan and Matthew, it was just go in and do my job and do the best that I could.
Rebecca: Okay. And Matthew was the conductor for quite a while. Was it something like eight years approximately?
Deborah: Eight years, yeah.
Rebecca: And then I know there was a search before Christopher Dragon was hired. Do you recall anything about that year; that season?
Deborah: A little bit, um, I know that we had some really good candidates at that time and the energy level is so fun during searches because each candidate that comes in cause they're trying to show their, their best side and stuff. But I think all of them had really, really good energy levels, and I think they connected well with the orchestra. So there were actually, you know, a couple of candidates that I think were at the top of the list as far as orchestra members were concerned. And so I think that we did very well with picking out Christopher and it's hard to keep up with all of these energies. I've only played a couple, I've only played a couple of times under Christopher at this point because we had to shut down for COVID in the middle of his first year, essentially. And then I sat out again one extra year because of COVID. So I have not played underneath Christopher as much as obviously I have with the other conductors.
Rebecca: Is he in his second or his third year now with the symphony?
Deborah: Technically it's his third. But, you know, we did shut down for one year, so it's really the second year working with orchestra members.
Rebecca: And how is it playing under him?
Deborah: He's—my experience so far has been great. He is very encouraging as far as going in and you don't feel like if you mess up during the rehearsal and stuff that he's really berating you to get the job done. He understands, I think, where people are having difficulties or whatever, and he still encourages them in a positive way. So the fact that I haven’t played in two years; this last concert where we played Beethoven, playing was pretty intense and exhausting because I hadn't played that intensely in two years. But he was very compassionate with my struggling, I guess you could say. So, you know, it takes a little while to get back into the groove.
Rebecca: Yeah. Okay. I wanted to ask you, since you've seen the transition from completely a community orchestra in Civic Symphony days to where we had our standard import players, but it wasn't that many people and it was always the same people. And generally they were from Wyoming, and local supporters of the orchestra and members of the orchestra extended their hospitality and it was all very much a, “We're in this all together and can do it more or less on a shoestring, including taking good enough care, housing the import players and things like that.” So there was that era, which I remember very clearly from high school and early college, and then the the transition to what is happening now. You’ve played in the orchestra through almost all of that time. Do you have any comments on that?
Deborah: It definitely is a balancing act. Coming from not as experienced and maybe less technical capability, originally; the orchestra has grown so much over the years because of the [indistinguishable], but it is kind of sad to see that we have more imports than we do locals. And I think that there is somewhat of a missed opportunity to grow and, you know, it used to be where we definitely had feeder programs coming in with the Youth Symphony and stuff and feeding into the potential of people wanting to participate in the orchestra. And you don't see that as much now. And that's reflected in how many local people participate. I think there's a lot of talent in Casper still, but some of the political differences or whatever, just because of philosophies and so on, or we've retired and we can't physically do as much as we used to. There's that part of it. But I would definitely like to see more local or even Wyomingites versus Coloradoites, but the caliber of musicians that are brought in also push the rest of us to meet that higher technicality and push us as musicians. So it's it's interesting to see the strings we have; we still have a rehearsal that's just strings. And that’s usually the first rehearsal and it used to be where, you know, there would be 20 strings and so on in town. And for this last concert, I think there were [indistinguishable], and I was the only cellist, so I'm the only local cellist. And I know the other cellists in town, but they don't participate with the symphony for various reasons. I think there's a missed opportunity for the board and potentially Christopher to be going out and talking to people that are local as to why they don't want to participate. And maybe some of it is because they don't want to audition because that is a scary thing for some people. But and I don't know, truthfully, I don't know if I'd had to have auditioned when I started, if I would have done it. It's because of that.
Rebecca: Yeah. I've heard various other local musicians who still play in the orchestra express the concern that there are musicians in Casper that are qualified to play in the orchestra and could be and aren’t. And it's more of a Colorado product than it ever was before. And that means, of course, as you say, it's that the standard is much higher. But one of the questions I was going to ask you, is I'll preface it with my impression, and you can either confirm or deny it. My impression is that the orchestra is a Casper product, or you could say a Wyoming product in terms of funding. And I assume that the demographics of the audience [is also a Casper product], but definitely not a Casper product, maybe not even really exactly a Wyoming product in terms of the musicians.
Deborah: Yes and no. I mean, I think the funding and stuff, yes, comes a lot, comes from Casper. More so than versus people in the state. And and it's not just Colorado because we do have musicians that come down from Montana, some that are from South Dakota that have played regularly with us and so on. And we used to joke about the Cheyenne Symphony actually being an extension of a Colorado symphony. Right. And I guess they're just migrating north. But, but again, it's the caliber of the musicians that the conductor wishes. And there are some key positions, obviously, you know, like the oboe and various wind and brass instrument sections and stuff, where if you don't have the people locally that want to participate, what are you going to do? You're going to have to go outside to continue the caliber of concerts that we all want to present. And so, again, it comes back to the balancing act, you know, So, yes, there's more Colorado people, but some of that, too. We're getting more musicians coming up from Laramie because we got utilizing more of the UW system. I guess, I guess, I just think more could be done. But that's always going to be the case in any orchestra. That's the case. But I don't know that we're really any different than other regional orchestras that aren't necessarily full time musicians because that's the other thing to remember, that a lot of the locals have day jobs and it isn't, and it isn't necessarily, like my position, I don't teach in the school district, I'm in the school district, but it's a different position. And you have others that are doing other types of jobs versus teaching or music-related as a day job and we don't have the time to necessarily practice three hours a day to get to the level of a professional full time orchestra. Because of that, because we have life and other jobs that we have to attend to.
Rebecca: Right.
Deborah: So I guess I just keep coming back to the fact that it's all a balancing act and we do as much as we can and do the best we can.
Rebecca: Yeah, so that was a shift when Curtis Peacock stepped down, to the—from the beginning of the history of the orchestra, there had been a conductor who had lived in Casper and since then all the conductors have been nonresidents. Do you have anything in particular to say about that?
Deborah: Because because of that, we had to change all rehearsal expectations. Um, when I first started, it was a once a week thing and we would get together, so we'd go through parts and then you would have, you know, a couple of days to work on those changes that you wanted to do and come back and try again. We didn't necessarily have sectionals at that time. [A sectional is a rehearsal that includes just one section of the orchestra such as the strings, or woodwinds, or brass] It was just always one, all of us getting together at the same time. So once we started having people that had to come in for the week, obviously they couldn't necessarily spend their time in one location for two weeks. So it got narrowed down to rehearsals within a week. It makes that very intense, but it also makes you aware that you’d better be more prepared walking into that first rehearsal. So and if you're not prepared, it's evident. That can be scary. But again, that pushes. You should definitely be doing more on your own versus relying on learning it in a rehearsal. And that's the way it should be.
Rebecca: Yeah. I have noticed that with the growth of the caliber of the orchestra, the music that's being programmed has become more difficult and possibly a lot more rewarding for the audience. Well, I don't know that during the years when it was a community orchestra, it was unrewarding for the audience. But I've noticed pieces like Mahler's Fifth Symphony. Beethoven's Ninth has been performed a couple of times at least. And you know, pieces like that. I think I also saw on a repertoire list the Tchaikovsky Serenade for Strings. Those are hard pieces. So how's that been for you to play such a more advanced and really more, I don't know. I won't say more [indistinguishable] I don't know. Harder music. [Gustav Mahler, 19th and 20th century Austro-Bohemian composer and conductor. [Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky, 19th century Russian composer]
Deborah: More technical, more stressful. We're practicing. It definitely makes you work your life schedule and stuff so you can put in more time to concentrate on it. Again, it pushes you as a musician. I think the audience definitely appreciates the fact that we've grown to the point where we can handle that difficult of repertoire. And it's also allowed us to bring in, I think, higher caliber of soloists because we're capable of supporting them as well as they should be supported. You know, I don't think that we would necessarily have gotten people like Alex Markov [Russian-American violinist] or the Moody Blues or Marcus Roberts [American jazz pianist], you know, so on, those people coming in, if we weren’t at the caliber of an orchestra that they felt comfortable playing with, that we could support them in their endeavors.
Rebecca: Yeah. Okay. I have two more questions. Maybe we can actually wrap up in the next five minutes. So as to the various solo artists that we have or that the orchestra has featured over time, what I really want to know, since they've all been really good performers, or almost all, did you notice differences in their attitudes? Like some of them were just not really all that impressed with themselves and didn't feel like they were lowering themselves to play in a community orchestra?And others obviously were, well, snooty. I guess you could say that. I don't ever recall anybody saying anything; I just sort of sensed an attitude. So I'm wondering what your perspective is on that particular phenomenon?
Deborah: Well, I think a lot of that is is the person, you know, with the way they, they expect an orchestra to be back in a, I mean, granted, they're the soloist, so we should be following their direction. And there are some that just naturally are there to have a good time. And one earlier on, they realized that we were in growing pains or growing orchestra and stuff, so maybe they had a lower expectations as to how we would come across. But for the most part, I think our soloists, the majority of them, have been very appreciative of the orchestra and you're going to always have the few that again, their egos are there and you know, they only want to communicate their information through the conductor or whatever, and that’s fine if that's what they want to do. But it definitely develops the rapport better with the orchestra when they feel comfortable enough to communicate to us directly what they would like, or they've had a long enough conversation with the conductor that he's got a clear idea of what they prefer, so he could give us that information during rehearsals before we even rehearse with the soloist but I think 90 percent of the soloists that we work with are appreciative of of the symphony, no matter how well we've done. And some of that is the attitude of the conductor as well and how they presented and how they booked that person to start with.
Rebecca: Yeah. Good point. Okay. We've, I don't want to cut you off if you have more to say, but ah, you.
Deborah: Know, you know, I was thinking about the different people that we had worked with and, and I think my, my favorite concert was, Flash Cadillac. And I think that's because it was such fun music to play. But also we had the audience dancing in the aisles. I remember that, you know, and Mark O’Connor was definitely down to earth and you were principal for that concert and did an awesome job solo and so on to accompany him. Marcus Roberts, when we played with his group, was really interesting because he required that the piano tuner, which happened to be my husband Steve, be there for the entire concert in case something went wrong with the piano.
Rebecca: Oooh.
Deborah: And so Steve was there for the entire concert on standby, and he never had to go do anything other than retune it at break and stuff to make sure that everything was the way he wanted it. But even though he was particular in his expectations at that point of the piano, he was still pretty down to earth. It's just that he was able to relay that this is one of his requirements to come is the piano tuner was at the concert on standby. So we had those, some of those soloists that had those specific things that they wanted to have happen.
Rebecca: Okay. Well, you actually have answered one of my favorite and late in the interview questions, which is, what musical experiences during your entire time with the symphony jump out at you as being the most fun or the most transcendent or whatever. So you've named them, great.
Deborah: What? Yeah. How many times did we play The Nutcracker [ballet by Tchaikovsky] and had to learn Pas de Deux? [A dance for two dancers, prominently featuring the cello section] And we certainly can hit that for you. Well, now it's too bad we can't do the ballets and the operas and stuff as much as we used to, but expense wise, that's kind of out of reach and stuff. Unless you really focus in on fundraising. But you know, that was always a good experience as well. And playing concerts with the Moody Blues was awesome, but that at any time to do that and now I'm steamrolling probably my other ones, you know. So we have had really good experience with kinder concerts [children’s concerts]. I'm sure you remember those. That was another way to see the interesting stuff into growing musicians within the community with the kinder concerts, which we unfortunately haven't been able to do for a long time. And a lot of that comes down to funding.
Rebecca: Yeah. Okay, well, is there anything else you would like us to know about your time with the symphony before we stop?
Deborah: It's it's been a privilege to be a participant for all these years, you know, and I don't know how many more years I will participate, but it's there. And it's always been a part of my family. And it's it's been a privilege.
Rebecca: Okay. And I don't think I had the recording on when we agreed that you are the person who has been in the symphony continuously for the longest time.
Deborah: Probably, since I started in December 1974, and I haven't officially retired yet. I mean, when I went to college for two years, I wasn't obviously able to play during those two years and then the shutdown for COVID and stuff interrupted those those years. But other than that, I have been at almost every concert.
Rebecca: Yep, I'm sitting here doing the math and realizing that with a few interruptions, pushing almost 50 years; I come up with 48 years.
Deborah: Yeah, if you don't count the college and the COVID years. Yep. Right.
Rebecca: Yeah. Well, congratulations. And thank you for giving us all this time today to share your experiences with the symphony. I really appreciate it. And you're very good addition.
Deborah: Thank you for thinking I'm interesting enough, I guess, to add to it. I read your article [history of the Wyoming Symphony Orchestra, published on WyoHistory.org] and it was really interesting though. I read a lot of in them a lot of memories and stuff. It's like, Oh, you forgot about that. And I did notice that the two pictures that you had at the start of your article had me and both of them.
Rebecca: Yeah, I recognized you.
Deborah: It's like, Oh, I guess that is me. Oh.
Rebecca: Okay. Well, take care and keep playing in the orchestra.
Deborah: Okay. Thank you.
Rebecca: Bye.
Deborah: Okay, Bye bye.