Jenna Baumgart
When WyoHistory.org published its history of the Wyoming Symphony Orchestra in October 2021, the editors realized that there were many more people available to contribute their thoughts and memories of that organization. The American Heritage Center at the University of Wyoming was also interested, and offered to contribute funding to support an oral history project to capture more information on the history of the symphony.
The Casper College Western History Center transcribed most of these interviews. In addition to being available here, at WyoHistory.org, the audio files plus transcripts are also available at the Western History Center and the American Heritage Center.
Thanks to the interviewees for donating their time; to the Casper College Western History Center for transcribing the audio files; to Kylie McCormick for transcribing some of the audio files; to the American Heritage Center for funding the project; and to the trustees of the George Fox Fund, Inc. for donating the use of its Zoom account.
Wyoming Symphony Oral History Project
Rebecca Hein interviewing Jenna Baumgart, September 15, 2022
Date transcribed: February 10, 2023
Rebecca: Thank you very much for making yourself available today.
Jenna: You're welcome.
Rebecca: Okay, let's start with your name and your instrument and how you came to play that instrument.
Jenna: My name is Jenna Baumgart. I'm actually a violinist, but I played viola with the Wyoming Symphony. And I started playing violin in third grade. Played it all the way up through into college and [when I] got to college, one of my professors was like, ‘Well, we need another viola player’ and I said okay. And so I swapped over and played viola ... on-and-off for the rest of my college time in college at Utah State. And then, when we graduated and we ended up in Wyoming, violas are kind of one of those needed things, so that's where I was at, I was playing viola.
Rebecca: Okay. And do you remember about when you joined the Wyoming Symphony?
Jenna: It's probably, my guess is 1993?
Rebecca: Okay, and were you principal viola from the time that you joined? I can't recall.
Jenna: No, I actually auditioned on violin and went in on violin, now that we're talking about this. And then at some point, I don't know, Curtis [Peacock, the conductor of the Wyoming Symphony at that time] and I were talking and he found out that I played viola. And he shifted me over. So I think I played at least one season as a violin.
Rebecca: Okay, let's go into what you recall about that time.
Jenna: That's a pretty broad question. (chuckles)
Rebecca: Yep. So just start spouting memories, if you have them.
Jenna: I remember rehearsing at, rehearsing at the college. [Casper College] I remember that we, I don't know. I really enjoyed everybody. Kristin was my stand partner when I was playing violin. And also I can't think of her last name. [In the string section of an orchestra, two players generally share a music stand]
Rebecca: Echterling.
Jenna: Yeah. Echterling, that's it. But she was great and we had a good time together. There were a lot of people [I] actually had a good time with there. Working with Curtis was a new experience 'cause it was my first like, out of college out of like, Youth Orchestra type experiences. And so it was different. The expectations of course, were different than what you expect, you know, in college or with a really high quality youth group or whatever. And I remember traveling [as an import musician] quite a bit too. Into Rapid City, into Scottsbluff.
A couple of those places. Several times into Rapid City. And I always traveled with, like, Sandy and Ginny [Himes] and Myron [Miller] and Roger [Hedlund]. I think that was pretty much the group of us. Oh, going to Gillette [to play with the Powder River Symphony Orchestra] Quite a bit too, and having all those people come in [as imports for the Wyoming Symphony] from Cheyenne and Gillette and getting to know them, which was really great.
Rebecca: You're talking about now playing in other places and as an import player and also having imports into the Wyoming Symphony?
Jenna: Yeah, yeah. It was fun getting to know all those people and [I] still keep in touch with Wendy Gray up in Gillette. I don't know if she still comes in and plays. ... It was just a nice group. It was a good way to to just have some time off and keep playing. And we played some good stuff. I remember thinking how crazy it was that we had such good soloists that came in to this little place, you know? Yeah.
Rebecca: Do you remember any one particular soloist?
Jenna: I remember when they had Mark O'Connor coming in 'cause he was just so quirky. Fantastic player, but really quirky. And I remember Curtis really kind of looking down on the fiddle concerto as we rehearsed it. [Concerto No. 1 for Fiddle and Orchestra, composed by O’Connor] And then, kind of the realization when Mark was there that maybe this wasn't quite as half-assed as he [Curtis] thought it was at the outset, was kind of the impression I got. [Mark O'Connor, award-winning, world-class American fiddle player, composer, guitarist, and mandolinist whose music combines bluegrass, country, jazz and classical.]
Rebecca: Who else?
Jenna: There are a couple of guitar players I remember coming. I don't remember their names. And like, the Broadway, the Bravo, Broadway stars. I remember Richard White coming in. And I really remember that because I brought my kids, who were little, to the dress rehearsal 'cause it would've been, it was too late for them to come to the concert. [Dress rehearsals were in the afternoons, concerts in the evenings] And I remember especially Richard afterwards taking a few minutes to talk to them and then, several weeks later my kids got a really lovely letter from him. And I think one of the two of them still got it somewhere actually. It was fun. Trying to think if there's anyone else I can remember offhand. Those are the ones that really stick out.
Rebecca: Do you remember who was in the viola section when you were principal and how big this section was, and how good it was? Or not good, as the case may be.
Jenna: Great. It wasn't huge. There were maybe five or six of us, and I know we had a couple of people that came in from Cheyenne. If I had a program to look at I could tell you for sure, but I know we had a couple of the high school kids that were playing with us. And I think we held our own fairly well. I don't remember we complained.
Rebecca: That’s a lot.
Jenna: I don't know if that was a matter of just being ignored, or if we were really just okay.
Rebecca: I think you guys were fine as I recall and I think I remember, you know, a very solid group over there.
Jenna: Yeah, there was, one of the high school kids, what was his name? Myron? Was- he was a Myron too. There were two Myrons. One was Miller?
Rebecca: Well, Myron Cowell, yeah.
Jenna: Myron Cowell there, but there was a high school kid named Myron too. Was it Myron? [Perhaps Ryan] Yeah, maybe.
Rebecca: He would have been in high school at the time, I think.
Jenna: Yeah, I think he played viola. I'm trying to think of who else.
Rebecca: Myron Miller, wasn't he a violinist?
Jenna: Yeah, he was a violin player. He played second [violin] 'cause I remember he sat right next to us. I know Roger [Hedlund] swapped over [from violin] to viola. And was it the, from up from Cheyenne, the harp player's husband, I think he played viola too. Did he play viola?
Rebecca: Jack Wallace?
Jenna: Yeah, what did he play?
Rebecca: No, he played violin, Connie, his wife, played violin. Or viola, excuse me.
Jenna: That's it. That's it.
Rebecca: And she took up the harp later.
Jenna: Okay, yeah, because she would swap in and out, if there wasn't a harp part.
Rebecca: Right.
Jenna: Yeah, that was it. And I know everyone, well, we had, Przygocki would show up every once in awhile, but not very often. [James Przygocki, professor of violin and viola at the University of Wyoming]
Rebecca: Yeah, I remember that too, that every now and then he would come up as an import, but not as often as the regulars.
Jenna: I'm trying to think.
Rebecca: Okay.
Jenna: Yeah, that's what I can come up with out of my head.
Rebecca: There's a question, well, about your musical experience. I'm wondering if there is one performance, or it could have been a rehearsal or whatever, musical event, that jumps out at you as the high point of your time with the symphony.
Jenna: Wow, I don't know. I know we did a couple of performances with the choir up there. [Casper Civic Chorale] Those were always good. I enjoyed doing those. They just, everything sounded so big and so tight [rhythmically] and so together. ... Mark O'Connor was probably a big one because he just seemed like such a a big name to me. And the music was just different ...[for] us. But that one really sticks out as something that the symphony had really nailed, something good for the community, having him in. And I think it went over well. I think it was good. I remember you playing with Mark and thinking Holy Cow.
Rebecca: I think it was a sellout crowd.
Jenna: Yeah, I'm pretty sure, yeah.
Rebecca: Of course, there were two audiences that he was drawing, he was drawing the classical audience, and he was drawing the country audience.
Jenna: Right. And yeah, it was packed and it was a good show. I think everyone enjoyed it.
Rebecca: So, um, back to the performances with choir. Would that have been, I know we did the Brahms Requiem. And I think we did the Verdi Requiem, do you recall? [A German Requiem, Opus 45, by Johannes Brahms, 19th century German composer; and Requiem in D, by Giuseppe Verdi, 19th century Italian composer. Both are a musical setting for choir, orchestra and soloists, of the Latin text of the Roman Catholic Mass for the Dead]
Jenna: I think, Verdi is the one I can remember. We did some Christmas something or other too, didn't we? I think there was at least one Christmas thing with the choir, huh?
Rebecca: Mmhmm.
Jenna: That I can remember. And there was something that they filmed. Because I remember a camera being by my head for the entire performance 'cause they were stuck in between the cello section and the viola section.
Rebecca: For television or something?
Jenna: Yeah. I don't know if it was for Wyoming Public TV. Which it probably seems likely. But I don't remember what it all was.
Rebecca: So switching from violin to viola?
Jenna: Mmhmm.
Rebecca: Did you find that difficult or was it kind of a natural thing?
Jenna: Well, it was hard at first, because I didn't know the instrument as well as I knew the violin. I mean, I'd been playing it in college a bit, but it took some getting used to. Again, because I wasn't used to reading the clef, [but] it was not that I couldn't read the clef. But I wasn't used to it and having to listen differently. That was different too. But no, it wasn't necessarily difficult; it was just different. [A clef is a sign, a kind of hieroglyphic, that musicians have to learn. It defines a particular line of the five-line musical staff, and it defines the note for that line—such as G—and from there, that is the reference point for all the other notes on the staff. Without a clef to define what note a particular line is, those five lines have no meaning at all. Violin music is notated in treble clef; viola music is notated in alto clef]
Rebecca: Yeah, I didn't know whether sound production would be significantly different because the fingerboard length has got to be a little bit longer than the violin. And is the neck of the instrument thicker than the violin? [The neck is the long, skinny part of the instrument that extends past the body of the instrument. It ends in the peg box, which holds the pegs that the strings are wound onto. The fingerboard is the black board, much thinner than the neck, that is attached to the neck starting from the end of the peg box, and extends past where the neck is attached to the body of the instrument, extending nearly half the length,or more, of the body of the instrument. The string player uses his/her left hand to push down the strings against the fingerboard to change the pitch of a string]
Jenna: I don't know, it might be the instrument body itself is bigger, but unlike violins, cellos, and basses that have standard measurements, violas don't have any sort of standardization.
Rebecca: I’ve noticed that.
Jenna: And so the the bouts can be wider or narrower or the body can be because when you get a viola, it's in inches, it's not full size, half size, eighth size, [etc.] it's 15 inch, 15 and a quarter or 16 inch, 16 and three-quarter inch, whatever. [Violins, cellos and string basses come in designated sizes: quarter size, half size, etc. The bouts are the sides, both upper and lower (the ones that curve out) and the middle (the ones that curve in)] And I had a fairly small viola; it was 15 3/4 but it put out pretty good sound. The only reason I bought it was because Curtis had me switch over and I came down to Utah and got it. I bought it from Dale Stevens, who passed away here not terribly long ago. I bought it almost off of his workbench. He had just finished it. And it's still sitting upstairs. I can't play viola anymore. I've had too much nerve damage in my arms. But I've gone back to violin pretty exclusively.
Rebecca: Well, I'm glad you're still playing, whatever the instrument is.
Jenna: Yeah, me too. It's taken some time to get back to it but we're getting there.
Rebecca: Well, there's sure a lot more repertoire for violin, I have to say that, and
Jenna: Oh yeah.
Rebecca: Playing in an orchestra, I'm sure the [violin] parts are more interesting, although if you’re a second violinist, you might not agree, I don't know.
Jenna: Yeah, I think playing viola is far more interesting as well, and my degree was in music, right? So everything I did was music. So looking at the viola part, it just made my brain work harder. Because it had to fit differently than just playing the melody all the time [the way first violinists often do in an orchestra]. I'd even honestly rather sit down and play second violin than than first [violin] any day. You can stick me in the back of a second violin section [and] I'll be happy. I would rather have something that is not constantly the melody all the time.
Rebecca: So you enjoy blending?
Jenna: Oh yeah.
Rebecca: Well, that's cool. I don't know that I've heard a lot of people say that.
Jenna: Yeah, it's just more interesting that way.
Rebecca: Yeah, well, I think it's a matter of temperament, what kind of instrument a given person enjoys, and what sort of parts they enjoy playing, and it's a good thing we have that variety, or else everybody would be playing one instrument and we wouldn't have orchestras.
Jenna: So true.
Rebecca: Now as I recall, when you were a member of the Wyoming Symphony Orchestra, you were at some point the music librarian?
Jenna: Mmhmm.
Rebecca: Do you recall what all you had to do in that position?
Jenna: I had to make sure that music was coming in appropriately, that it was ordered, that anything we purchased was filed. I had to make sure everyone had music, and that includes getting music out to the imports, which was such a pain sometimes, 'cause you'd have to, either you have to copy it, or you have to send it certified mail and it was such a pain. And, oh geez, I remember one time I was, I 'cause I was kind of a non-voting board member type thing, and they had me at a board meeting and somebody started talking about ASCAP and paying royalties to ASCAP. I looked at them and I said, "I've never seen an ASCAP license, and I've never seen anyone ask me for the information we need to be sending to ASCAP and I don't know that there's ever been anything sent to ASCAP. And everyone was like, this stunned silence. [The American Society of Composers, Authors, and Publishers (ASCAP) is an American nonprofit performance-rights organization that collectively licenses the public performance rights of its members' musical works. ASCAP collects licensing fees from users of music created by ASCAP members, then distributes them back to its members as royalties.]
Rebecca: Mmmm.
Jenna: One of the board members says, "I think I need to excuse myself from this meeting as our law firm represents ASCAP."
(both laugh)
Jenna: I’m like, oh boy, yeah, you probably met her in at that point. She was excused. And then I was excused. I after that I was sending programs to ASCAP pretty regularly after every concert. I don't know how that; I think someone said they'd gotten under the radar for a couple of years not paying ASCAP licensing because they had been playing stuff that was considered, like, public domain.
Rebecca: Mmm.
Jenna: And so they just, they opted in that year or two years that they would just, to save money, they just wouldn't pay ASCAP I think is what it came down to. So like, um, well, yeah, we should probably start doing that again.
Rebecca: Oh dear. I take it there was no trouble as a result of this, it's just there was a transition and we just started paying them?
Jenna: Yeah, I don't know that there was. I think we just started paying again. I think it was just kind of, well, no one noticed so we'll just pick it back up again.
(both laugh)
Rebecca: The things that musicians don't think about, we just show up, there our music is [and] we play it. And there's all this other stuff that has to happen that somebody has to do it. The board pretty much has to oversee it, I guess, and make sure things are being done right. It's part of the finances, right?
Jenna: It's gotta be added into the budget. And so yeah, I don't know what they were trying to save or 'cause I hadn't, you know, I hadn't been in that position for very long.
Rebecca: Were you at that board meeting in your capacity as the librarian, or were you the Orchestra Rep? [Representative]
Jenna: No, no. I think I was there as librarian. I think they just had me in.
Rebecca: I see.
Jenna: I might, well, and 'cause I was personnel manager at the same time 'cause they were a combined position, so I may have been there in both, in that capacity in both ways.
Rebecca: I was going to ask you about being personnel manager. As far as I knew, mainly you had to be there at the rehearsal, to take attendance and make sure you marked who was on time and who was there and who was late and so on. Did you have other personnel manager duties?
Jenna: Uhm, I had to hire all the imports. And make sure that we had enough players coming in to cover stuff, and I had to make sure I got all the names to the program. Uhm, with all the music, and I'm trying to remember if I had to send that directly, or if I gave it to someone else to do, I just remember having to put it all together. I don't remember ever having to run auditions. I may have had to, but I don't remember doing that. I think that may have been something else.
Rebecca: Yeah, I don't recall. Well, you might have been present, present at auditions as principal viola. But as I recall, it was Curtis and all the principal string players. Well, we auditioned the strings. I don't think I ever sat in at a woodwind or brass audition. [Woodwind instruments, for example, are flute, clarinet, oboe, English horn, and bassoon. Brass are trumpet, trombone, French horn, and tuba.]
Jenna: Right.
Rebecca: Well, back to hiring imports. Was it ever a scramble, scrounging around trying to find enough people?
Jenna: Yes.
Rebecca: Or was it always pretty easy?
Jenna: No, I mean, there were the regulars that were usually pretty good. But then we'd have, you know, some oddball instrument pop up that we'd have to come up with. Or, you know, and it's just like, well, where do I even, I don't even know where to look, you know? Where do I even look? And of course it was, nine-tenths of it, was, you know, check with the university [of Wyoming], see if the university got somebody.
Rebecca: What sort of oddball instruments?
Jenna: I'm trying to remember. Or that we needed like seven [French] horns or something instead of three or four.
Rebecca: Ah.
Jenna: You know, extra, the you know for the big extra stuff. So that was, yeah, that one was always a challenge. And then if the weather got bad, I held my breath every time the weather got bad 'cause everyone coming from Denver and Cheyenne and Gillette. You know, is everyone gonna make it? Is everyone gonna be safe? Are we going to have everybody here?
Rebecca: Okay.
Jenna: There were probably days it would have been better to have someone that was maybe a little less stressed about stuff like that doing the job.
Rebecca: Yeah, yeah. Were you also in charge of figuring out where the imports were going to stay?
Jenna: No, because by the time I took the job, most of the imports were pretty regular. And they would just, they had places that they stayed.
Rebecca: Yeah, they had regular people that hosted them.
Jenna: And so, yeah, I don't remember having to worry about putting anyone up.
Rebecca: That's good 'cause that could have been a real nightmare.
Jenna: Oh yeah.
Rebecca: Well, do you recall, I don't really remember, it seems to me that we didn't have all that many imports. Do you recall an approximate number of people per concert or proportion of the orchestra or anything like that?
Jenna: It was usually a handful of violins, maybe five or six and a couple of violas. Sometimes we had trumpet rotations, I think. People coming in from? From I didn't know if that was Cheyenne or not, but I think we had a couple of trumpet players that we that rotated in and out. If they didn't, things didn't work right. But I don't think it [the total import count] was a huge proportion of the orchestra. It was maybe 11-12 people, I think, tops. Even that may be pushing it. And part of it too is budget constraints, I think.
Rebecca: So the symphony would pay people’s gas to come up and of course pay them for the performing. And also did they pay a per diem?
Jenna: Not that I remember, and I don't know that they paid gas either.
Rebecca: Oh really?
Jenna: Nuh-uh. I think it may have just been the per service ["service" means a rehearsal or a performance], well, maybe. I don't remember ever negotiating anything other than one flat fee.
Rebecca: For rehearsals and performance.
Jenna: Rehearsals and performance, yeah. There may have been, but I don't remember anything.
Rebecca: Okay so it was your job to come up with the imports? And to take attendance at the rehearsals. Did you have to pay the regular musicians or was that somebody else's job?
Jenna: I just had to take roll so that the payroll could be done.
Rebecca: And to whom did you give your roll record?
Jenna: It might be- probably Holly. [Holly Turner, executive director of the symphony at that time] She was really the only one that had any, I don't know if she handed it off to anyone else, but I'm pretty sure it went, all went to her.
Rebecca: Okay, so that would be to the executive director or manager or whatever they titled that job?
Jenna: At that point, yeah.
Rebecca: Wow, so you had to make sure the names of the imports got into the program. Were there any fiascos that couldn't have been prevented in in that, or was it a pretty routine job?
Jenna: It was pretty routine. I mean, sometimes we had to add one or two and like I said, so many of the imports were regulars before I took the position that it, it was already kind of established in there. And I don't remember anyone ever being put out about anything being missed in the program or or whatever.
Rebecca: Well, it was a pretty easygoing bunch, as I recall.
Jenna: Yeah, they really were. They just wanted to play.
Rebecca: Yeah, that's why orchestras can get musicians for not very much money, and not very much gas money either 'cause we want to play, so we'll drive miles.
Jenna: Yeah, we really will.
Rebecca: Okay, do you have anything else to tell us about your time with the symphony, either your musical experience or your other two jobs? Librarian and personnel manager?
Jenna: I know that playing was great for me because it, we did so much literature [repertoire]. In such a small place—I mean relatively small. And the literature wasn't corny and it wasn't arrangements. I mean, I think we put [out] a quality product for being in a city of at the time was what, 60,000, 25 years ago? Whatever it is.
Rebecca: At most, there's that much, yeah.
Jenna: And I played so much music, it was such a benefit to me, to be able to play that much. And it was great. And the librarian and personnel stuff was good. It was good for me to see the the inner workings of a nonprofit. Going to the board meetings as kind of a nonvoting, mostly non-participating member except when called upon. Because I'd never seen the inner workings of a nonprofit. And much as I loved the symphony and enjoyed the people, it also taught me that I never want to be involved deeply in a nonprofit. (both laugh) I will go and play. I will go and I will, will if fundraising, if you need money, I will be happy to pay. [But] please do not put me on or in the board of a nonprofit ever again.
Rebecca: Okay, and would you like to say why?
Jenna: I just, you know, it, within an orchestra there are egos, people are performers and they have an ego. And some of them are justified and some of them are not, and some of the board members, I well, I respected all of them. And I'm trying to think of who everyone was. I can see faces, but I couldn't even tell you names, I don't think. I just thought some of them seemed so pretentious, being there and thought they knew so much and were so much better. And I think in their individual lives and their individual things and what they did, they were all very good at that, but coming together and trying to run this nonprofit. And having so few of them having been actual musicians. I just sat there thinking, this is just a joke, some days. Like they don't know what they're trying to do. But yet somehow we managed to put out this quality product and bring in quality soloists and bring in good audiences and have good fundraising and somehow it all worked out. But I guess I don't like the politics of that kind of thing. I guess that's probably what it comes down to. Let me come in and sit down, and play, and enjoy my music, and go home.
Rebecca: So I will just observe that [in] my long history of playing in orchestras, many of them community orchestras, I received the impression from the the people that were responsible for raising the money, which was usually board members, that I was a kind of upper-servant, you know, the way you would have been in the old days. There would be a nobleman or somebody that had a lot of money and title and family and so on. And you know, they would have their in-house orchestra, their in-house music master. And no matter how you looked at it, that person was a servant. Not the cook, not the scullery maid, you know, definitely a higher-class of servant. But I really thought, I noticed that, you know, that the people whose business it was—to the people that had the money—that were raising more money and were serving on the board really felt; well, I can't lump them all together, but I did get a general sense that, you know, I was inferior.
Jenna: Yeah, exactly. And there were times sitting there in those meetings, that's the sense that I really got and I guess at one meeting when I said, I don't know, we haven't [got] an ASCAP license, they they looked shocked like I even knew what I was talking about. I mean, that's kind of one of those things, I think, that may have shut them all down faster than anything, was that I knew what I was talking about.
Rebecca: Yeah, there's kind of a stereotype of musicians that we're kind of dumb outside of what we do. And even with what we do, we're still sort of ‘dim.’ I may be exaggerating things a bit.
Jenna: Yeah, dim or, you know, it's a hobby. It, you know, this isn't a real thing. It's a hobby.
Rebecca: Even when it isn't.
Jenna: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Rebecca: Yeah, I marvel, you know, that orchestras are run by boards consisting mainly of people who really, many times don't really have much of an idea of what musicians do.
Jenna: Mmhmm.
Rebecca: But they're responsible for the money. And if they do their job well, that's great. You know, 'cause orchestras just really can't function without money. So, a really interesting mix and it sounds like you were closer to it than a lot of the members of the orchestra because of the things that you've mentioned about being the librarian and all that. Well, I couldn't help but think, also, as you were saying, you know you'll show up and play and you'll do all that, but you won't serve on the board of a nonprofit [for] an orchestra. There, as you mentioned, are a lot of what, competing egos or whatever. A lot of people have worked really hard and all that, but we're [the musicians] required to be subordinate to the conductor. Yeah, I mean, that's part of this situation. But on a board, even though there's probably [indistinguishable] there is a chair[person]. Nobody is required to be subordinate to that person except in parliamentary procedure, probably. I would imagine that it creates some problems that you wouldn't have in an orchestra.
Jenna: Yeah, that's true. And I think too, being in a smaller community where everybody really knows everybody, especially in the business community, there had to be some competing issues there as well, so.
Rebecca: It reminds me of, well this is, might be a little off track, I don't know, but there's a comedienne by the name of Anna Russell. She's British or was British and Canadian. She did a very humorous parody of the Ring cycle [The Ring of the Nibelungen (four long operas by Richard Wagner, 19th century German composer]. And she did a great job of it, but she did some other things too. And she said something funny about, I think it's in describing one of those operas that they launch into a contest, basically "Anything you can sing, I can sing louder. Anything you can sing, I can sing. higher," and so on. Okay, so on a board of directors for an orchestra, uhmm, any money you have, I have more.
Jenna: (chuckles heartily)
Rebecca: Any job you have, I have a more prestigious job. Any house you have, I have a bigger house.
Jenna: Exactly.
Rebecca: I don't really know; I just get a kind of a feeling about it by being an upper-servant, yeah.
Jenna: Yep, that's it. That works out right there.
Rebecca: And it's very good that all this produces money for orchestras. I mean, we can't complain, right?
Jenna: Yeah, I know. It's if we got the money and we can come and we can play, then we're in good shape. But yeah, I, like I said, I don't relish what those people do. And I would rather not have anything to do with it. I learned that being there. I didn't mind working in the office. I loved the people. But I just, I do not schmooze in politics well, and I don't like it, so.
Rebecca: So when you were involved in going to board meetings, did you get the impression that the mix of human chemistry just wasn't working. Or that that was just how it how it is. Or can you shed any light on that?
Jenna: Well, I don't know, [it] having been my first experience with that kind of thing, I just kind of assumed that's the way it was. ... And I know people don't always get along and since, I've since I left, most of my time has been spent in education, which in some ways is not any better than a board meeting. But I think in most cases, administratively in education, administration really is looking out for the educator. Again, if we move up a step from that, [the] school board is more beholden to the money people, right? The parents and taxpayers, so, and listening to a school board hem and haw and kind of half do things 'cause they don't wanna lose their shot, their seat on school board. What is different than listening to, you know, a nonprofit board where people I think, uh, I think the nonprofit board is a little more aggressive towards each other in a lot of ways, because they don't necessarily have to worry about being voted out. You know what I mean? Yeah, it was an experience, ... I suppose at some point there's probably better people or better places or better organizations or different organizations that run differently and have a different dynamic. But then what was had there? I guess it can't be generalized.
Rebecca: I have another question about the symphony board. This arises from research I did on a history of the Wyoming Symphony Orchestra that I wrote a couple of years ago, where I got a sense that people were on the board for different reasons, like some people were on the board, maybe the majority of them, because they loved going to concerts and they loved the symphony as a cultural asset and they really, really wanted it to succeed, to be funded enough to stay in existence. And then there were others who kind of felt it was what, a ‘social duty’ you could say.
Jenna: Mmhmm.
Rebecca: Because that's what you do if you're above a certain socioeconomic level and have a certain profession or your husband does. And then other people, that it was just a notch above. ‘This is what you do if you're a doctor or your husband is a doctor,’ or whatever. Just sort of to be seen or to have your name on that board as, that's not exactly prestige, but I don't know what name to put to it but not the reason of loving the music. Yeah, it's more [like for] visibility for yourself and your family. I just got a feeling that there were those varying levels of reasons for people being there.
Jenna: Yeah, I think you're right. I'm pretty sure there was a real genuine love for a good portion of them for the arts, I mean. Holly [Turner] was a driving force. She would just—everything artistic she was happy with. You know, if she could keep that going, then she would, um. And who else? Dale. [Dale Bohren, longtime string bass player with the symphony, and executive director in the 1990s] I think Dale sat on the board for a little while, even after he was finished [being executive director], because he was Chamber of Commerce president.
Rebecca: Right.
Jenna: Yeah. And so I think he was the same way. He wanted to see the community succeed and have, this thing and you're right. I think there were a few people that were like that and then there were a few that were just there for the wine and the cheese mixers after. You know, to say that they've met this artist and they’ve-.
Rebecca: Well, I did notice that some of the really wealthy people that were on the board or wives of wealthy men or whatever, the ones that loved the orchestra, they killed themselves volunteering their time for for fundraisers. I mean some of those balls and things that they had to sit on [the organizing committees for].
Jenna: Oh yeah.
Rebecca: My goodness, what an extravaganza in terms of organization. So they would put in huge amounts of time and, as a couple, you know, they would donate enormous amounts of money, you wouldn't see it [so much] in the program, you know, the list of contributors, but when there was a fundraiser ball or some other big fundraising event where things were auctioned off or whatever. That's when the big money was pumped in. And those people, it just amazed me how much of their money and how much of their time they would give to the orchestra.
Jenna: Well, and I wonder how much of that, too, if, you know, being in a place like Casper, and being incredibly well-off. Either either having nothing to do, or really wanting to be the philanthropist, and just give everything to something or somebody, you know, which side of the coin that was on, and I don't know that I could say. I just, I imagine being a wife of a wealthy whoever and being in Casper, Wyoming and thinking ‘I've got to do something with myself besides sit here. And and I need to be involved somehow.' So yeah, I don't know.
Rebecca: Well, I remember Dale Bohren telling me something he noticed, I think when he was manager, that some people, some of the board members, they were on the board because they loved the music and they loved the symphony. They really wanted to support the symphony, and then others of them, that was an ingredient in their involvement. But what they really liked were the after-concert receptions. Sometimes hosting them, you know, putting on, opening their house and cooking for two weeks beforehand or whatever to get all ready. He mentioned the Efimoffs.
Jenna: Oh yeah, yeah.
Rebecca: And hosting the guest artists and you know, also that the people part of it was very important to some of the people, as important as going to the concerts and helping to support it all.
Jenna: Yeah. I remember well and we're talking about some people, I know that about nine-tenths of the time, guest artists who came in stayed with somebody. And I remember, very specifically, it was Mark O'Connor again, who said that he couldn't stay in a house, he had to have a hotel room because he would get up and practice at like two in the morning. And so it was all of a sudden this big rush to find a nice enough room to put him up in, once we got the contract in. Because the contract had all of these conditions that had to be met for him, which was different because I hadn't, I don't know that I'd, up until that point, I'd ever seen a contract that had, you know, various conditions that had to be met like that. Like, you know, like he needed his own room, his own place to stay because of his odd hours and the way he worked. I think there was something about food in the green room for him too, but I don't remember exactly what it was. A certain kind of drink or something- anyway. [The green room is a special room, usually near the stage, where guest artists or performers warm up on their instruments and otherwise prepare to go onstage] But yeah, it was a really specific contract for him.
Rebecca: I wonder how he managed practicing at 2:00 in the morning at a hotel, which undoubtedly did not have a soundproof room for him. (both laugh)
Jenna: I don't know. But yeah, almost all of everybody who came in stayed with somebody on the board, yeah.
Rebecca: Of course, way back in the day when you were and I were in the symphony, all the imports stayed with hosts and you know, in private homes and things like that.
Jenna: Pretty much.
Rebecca: That's not the case now, but things are different now.
Jenna: Yeah, I'm sure.
Rebecca: Okay, do you have anything else to tell us as far as your experience as a musician or in any other capacity?
Jenna: I don't think so. You saying a couple of names has kind of kicked my brain into trying to put faces with some of those names, but I didn't associate much with a lot of those people outside of going to a board meeting 'cause not only was I, you know, a musician, but I was also 20 years younger than most of them. Twenty, 25 years younger than most of them, so [it] wasn't really my thing either, but other than that, I don't think so.
Rebecca: Once again, I really appreciate your giving us your time for this interview.
Jenna: You're welcome. It's kind of fun. It's just, it's nice to hear from you.
Rebecca: It's great to get the perspective of the music librarian job and the personnel manager job as well, so I appreciate that quite a lot.
Jenna: Yeah, you're welcome.
Rebecca: Okay, well, take care. Enjoy your life as a violinist and a school teacher.
Jenna: Yeah. Couple more years of that anyway.
Rebecca: Okay, well, thanks again.
Jenna: Thanks, Becky. Bye-bye.